Talk:Four dichotomies

From Dar

Mo's score

A/B 0 C/D 0 E7 H7

A/B and C/D - I can find arguments to support both ends of the spectrum so have played safe and gone for the neutral position. I went more on instinct for E/F and G/H.

Kathryn's score

My score: A3 D8 E6 H7

I tried to make an instinctive choice each time rather than deliberating overlong on each, think the more I considered the less sure I was of the disparity between the two poles of opinion and of course there are instances where you can see examples of each. Certainly stirs the brain. I hope I have entered this ok as I am not used to the format so please excuse any mishaps :o)

Linda's score

Here's my score:

A1 D9 F1 H6

I found that quite hard!

A/B Are CoPs discovered or built? Well I'd like to answer "both" or even it depends on your definition of CoPs. Wenger initially talked about discovered CoPs and I inclined towards that view at first.Then I discovered that he thought that had to be in a face to face context. I've been watching the TA Chat Forum, a wholly on-line group build into something that's starting to meet his criteria. It is being nurtured, growing and developing and all without external intervention.Andy's experience with ukcider would confirm this idea of CoPs developing on line with no previous history of interaction between members.However, someone (Andy, Summertime) built these environments, started these groups, and people elected to join them. So where does that place them in the dichotomy between A and B?I'm still thinking about it. (Which is I suppose the point of the diagram!)

C/D I found easier. I'm clear here that the environment the group finds itself in on-line is crucial for its growth. Bad software choices can stifle the group and to me the software is not just a tool. The way the software works can set conventions within the group, and so effect the whole 'tone' of the group's interactions.

E/F I think that there can be repositories of knowledge and a respect for the power of story within the community. These to me are not either/or questions so my score there is trying to sit in the middle with a slight lean towards narrative.

G/H OK I sort of covered this one in A/B. I think that both these things happen. Groups that are off-line can move on-line. But certainly on-line groups can and do allow dispersed individuals to form CoPs. I know that Andy's sure this inevitably leads to meet ups but I haven't enough experience to be certain of this. --Linda 13:02, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

John's thoughts

scoring B9 | C2/D8 | E8 | H8

A and B aren't necessarily opposing views - both have merit - but I don't believe that CoPs are exclusively emergent - and therefore I scored B9

Again C & D both have some merit - however the best way IMHO to establish a technology substrate is to provide an "environment".. .However this does rather require a culture to be present and if that is not presnet then some organised "business change management" is required to establish the technology in a way which supports the required culture. However - individuals do need personal productivity tools - and a range of those can be very useful - which is where some of the Web2.0 tools (Flickr, SuprGlu et al) come in handy. So a C2/D8 for me (if I can score like that?)

E and F are, in a commercial environment, points on a maturity line which is exemplified by a project in which I am currently involved. They require some initial capture of exemplar documents and "one version of the truth" statements upon which they can then build moving forward ... and witout that any storytelling is met with "well that's all very interesting but how can I find the current version of document X". So I'm scoring E8 for new commercial COPs and F9 for more mature CoPs or those based in a non-commercial environment.

G and H I went for a score of H8 as in most of the CoPs I've been involved in the presence of the onine instance is critical to build the persistence and accessibility to the CoP. If there isn;t some persistence then in most cases the CoP fades. --Barben 15:24, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

Ted's score

A5 D10 EF0 GH0

Self-organization happens. No matter what.

A/B - It is natural that people get together. It also seems quite natural that some people put attention into the care and feeding of communities when it seems that's needed.

C/D - I'm much more compelled by the environment point.

E/F - I don't see knowledge being "extracted" very well, nor do I see "experts" as the answer, unless we're all experts by doing the work. So I'm choosing dead center. Or "neither."

G/H - I've seen both. So I'm choosing "both."

TedErnst 19:47, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

Bev's score

A/B. Neither. Communities of Practice is a lens (i.e. a language) through which to look at the social dynamics of learning.

C/D. Neither. Technology and social software are both shape and are shaped by the individuals and the environments (contexts) in which communities are emerging (or not).

E/F . Neither. Knowledge is something that is continuously under construction. It is only knowledge in the sense that it is meaningful to the person (in a community) makes sense of it.

G/H. Neither and both - depends on the context.

--bevtrayner 22:52, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

I've responded to this at User_talk:Bevtrayner. Cheers, Andy.

Eve's Score

First and instinctive scores - I'll add more when I've reflected on why I chose the scores!

A/B5, C/D 0, E/F 0 (I've seen both in the same community), G/H5

Sarah's comment

A/B 0

C/D 0

E/F 0 no experience but seems likely both could happen. Partly depends on whether you view telling a story online as then being placed in a repository - Could eventually be one and the same thing. Also the point about people selecting their own repository might then arise e.g. I have my own of technical points raised in FC.

G/H 0 no experience but feel it likely both could happen.

The edit icon did not appear at first so went back and edited the message and saved changes and found there were two messages. The first one now having the edit icon but not the second. Feel free to delete this. Sorry!

Why dichotomies?

I'm curious as to the need for categorising ourselves through dichotomies??? I think all of these areas happen in, and are relevant to Communities of Practice. More useful for me would be to categorise by the intention of each community or piece of research - builds common ground rather than creating a polarisation. Probably a sign of cultural difference in my thinking - Stephen

Why indeed

First an observation: Early responses seemed more willing to find a place on the scale whereas later ones are converging more towards the "0" or "not applicable" type of answer. I wonder to what extent this may be because the answers are placed on view, as a kind of discussion, and may have developed differently if they were submitted individually, using a tool such as surveymonkey.

Secondly, I now think the resistance to these dichotomies is valid and it may be useful to explode the four dichotomies into eight aspects, not necessarily opposed to each other at all, which can be expanded, described, discussed seperately. Perhaps not starting them all off at once though.

I'd be interested in exploring the idea of 'cultural differences in thinking' too. I think I have been trained to seek out and describe areas where there are opposing ideas, to explore the tension. That's where I generally expect to find a concentration of energy, learning and creativity. --Andy Roberts 11:12, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

Mark's stuff

0 - Both A and B

0 - Both C and D

9 - F - People, people and people

0 - Both G and H

Gordo's thoughts

The scores can be for A, C, E, G since B, D, F, H are redundant, surely? Gordo 09:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In other words is A really -B (as a vector)? Gordo 09:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it may depend upon the extent to which one accepts these as genuine dichotomies. If some are false dichotomies, then the A = -B approximation doesn't really hold up. so it 's difficult to answer other than 0. --Andy Roberts 12:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I will consider the possibilities - like "po" Gordo 12:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Belen's Score

AB: B8 CD: C8 EF: E5 GH: G8

I don't want to say more. I'm nervous even about this.